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SKaVeN

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Reply with quote  #16 
Yeah, that all sounds a bit extreme, for me.  It's still running well, since I did that clear out so maybe I just had a dodgy video file on there. 

If it holds, Ill slowly start to put my videos back on there, and adding back all the scheduled recordings I previously had set up. 

My fingers are still crossed...

If it starts stuffing up again, I'd probably be better off replacing the unit with a Beyonwiz.

Thank you for all your time, people.  😉
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IanL-S

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Reply with quote  #17 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AQUAR

There is also a PC program (TopfHDRW) that will let you read/write to the Toppy HDD once it is connected to a PC - good to copy any recordings from the Toppy HDD to your PC HDD.



I thought that that program only works with SD toppys. FTtool has a module that allows the reading of TMS Toppy disks (JFS file system).

Ian
PS wrote this post 8 hours ago but forgot to press POST - another seniors moment.
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AQUAR

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Reply with quote  #18 

@ IanL-S

Thanks for the info.
I haven't checked what file systems are in use by the various Toppy models and so presumed that this program applied to all toppies.
I'll DL the FTtool for my repository of useful Toppy programs (seems like a useful tool to have!).

@ SKaVeN

The info was really intended to provide you with the next steps if the unit continues to misbehave.
The whole HDD issue is more difficult to convey than it is to resolve (attach HDD with a simple USB to SATA docking station and format).

Right now you need do nothing more than the quick format already performed. 
SMART is just giving you a warning about the state of the HDD in the Toppy.
Keep an eye on the table and you may well find that the "bad" sectors will be deemed not to be bad after a write/read cycle.
And if these 2 parameters start to increase with use  then its time to replace the HDD


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SKaVeN

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Reply with quote  #19 
So, would that mean that my original hypothesis is actually looking quite plausible (i.e the unit didn't like one of the video files I transferred onto it)?
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AQUAR

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Reply with quote  #20 
Not with respect to the HDD bad sector flags.
But the video files might have been copied into these sectors and subsequently failed to be read and therefore marked as bad.
The quick format you performed, frees these marked sectors from needed data, and so they will either be reallocated if bad or reused if still functional.
This you can follow with SMART to gauge the viability of this HDD.
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SKaVeN

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Reply with quote  #21 
Sorry, but I'm still a little confused...

Are you saying that the format worked and that the problem has been fixed, or that, because the two bad sectors are still there, the problem is, too?
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AQUAR

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Reply with quote  #22 
Formatting a HDD does not fix any underlying HDD issues.

It does make it possible for the HDD management system to take the next step wrt these 2 sectors flagged as "pending reallocation".
If they are bad (due to mechanical flaws or magnetising issues) then they will be reallocated and problem solved.
If they are deemed good then the "pending reallocation" count will be reset to 0 and problem solved.
If next time you look at the SMART table and the count of these 2 parameters is increasing slowly then HDD problem remains.
If next time you look at the SMART table and the count of these 2 parameters is increasing a lot (say 30 or more) then consider replacing the HDD.    

Now the state of the HDD is one possibility for your issue.
Other possibility for your issue is errors in the file system itself (they happen for lots of reasons eg improper shutdown).
If the toppy tells you it wants to verify or reformat the HDD on boot then there has been a trigger event that is usually due to file system errors or bad HDD.

Our suggested course of action is to do a full format on a PC and then let the Toppy reformat it again and then watch the SMART for bad sectors.
Since that seems a bit extreme to you then wait and see is fine, and if it all goes pear shaped you know why.


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SKaVeN

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Reply with quote  #23 
I've still got those 2s in Current Pending Sector and Uncorrectable Sector count, so no change there.  Temperature still running at 46, even though it has nothing around it ans in an open cabinet.  Oh, well...
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AQUAR

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Reply with quote  #24 
46 is a threshold value and not a variable - forget the temperature.
Pending value and reallocated value won't change until a write attempt has been made to these 2 marked sectors.
Or if more bad sectors are discovered (hence the HDD utility or CHKDSK advise).
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IanL-S

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Reply with quote  #25 
Most of the problems I have had have been file system related. Only had one where there was significant HDD damage. It was a 2470 used by my mother-in-law and I suspect she did things like pulling the plug out of the wall without first powering down the Toppy. Which could explain why the unit no longer sends power to the internal HDD!

Ian
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AQUAR

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Reply with quote  #26 

I think file systems are more vulnerable on PVR's as their HDD's are in much more use then a typical home based computer.
For instance, main's power issues become more prominent as a source for file system corruption (need good power supply filter capacitors!).
I guess one reason for the journaling file system on toppies is the faster recovery ability due to the journaled meta data.  

If the OP's toppy HDD had a clean bill of health then I would tend to point the finger more at file system corruption.
If it was my machine I would just run CHKDS on the HDD.

Best HDD outcome for the OP is that in due course the SMART for sectors are all at zero.
If the issue returns despite the HDD showing up as being good, then you look for causes of file system corruption (another story!).  

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SKaVeN

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Reply with quote  #27 

Hi, guys!

just giving you an update...

Well, everything continued to keep working fine until today...

I had all my scheduled recordings back which were all working.  I had no issues, whatsoever.  The only thing I did not do was transfer video files from the USB onto the PVR HD.  Instead, I was just transferring them, as I wanted to watch them, and deleting them straight after.

Today, I deiced to transfer several across, just to see what happens...

Well, it looks like you were right and that it was data in being stored on the bad sector that is the problem...

I had it set to record a TV programme today and, when I got home, I noticed the PVR was on and, instead of the TV show, I had that dreaded box popup "WARNING! SELECTING YES WILL LOSE ALL YOUR DATA."

I clicked NO and, this time (unlike all the other times) the HDD seemed okay!  The EPG was fully functional, I had all my recordings, the data I transferred from the USB - everything!

A few minutes later, it decided to reboot itself, did a (very) quick HDD check.  All good!  The only thing I didn't have was that TV show it was meant to record, today.

Then... it all started happening, all over again.  I had to reformat and reset to factory setting about ten times because, it either didn't work, or froze whenever I tried to do something a few minutes later.  Hmmm...

Could this problem have anything to do with my forgetting to unplug the USB?  It is a few years old, very well-used, and, as I said earlier, often keeps disconnecting and reconnecting.

Would you believe that, almost every time this happened, I was watching the exact same programme on the exact same channel?  Weird...

Can I ask some questions about the reformat using the PC please?

1)  Is it too complicated for a novice?

2)  Is there a risk it could delete or corrupt the software installed bu the manufacturer (i.e. what it needs to operate itself).

3)  Will I need any special equipment?

4)  Is there a link with a walk-through (preferably one with pictures)?

In regards to the equipment, I have this which I got to transfer all my data from my old desktop PC HD to my laptop.

P9050001.jpg 

 


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SKaVeN

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Reply with quote  #28 

Update:

Totally shat itself.  On the rare occasions it does find its HDD on start up, it freezes up soon as I try and do anything.

I've already purchased a refurbished TRF-2460 from a place called fixmydata on eBay.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Topfield-TRF-2460-Masterpiece-HD-Plus-PVR-with-1-5TB-HDD/273388637373?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

Thanks for all the help, anyway, guys.  It was appreciated.  😉

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AQUAR

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Reply with quote  #29 
fixmydata is a member of this forum.

Now there was room for experimentation with regards to the HDD on your failing toppy.

. You have the external hardware (from the above picture!) to reformat the HDD on your PC and the windows OS has the software to check the HDD.
. If you take the HDD out of the toppy you could check if the toppy becomes functional again (without being able to record programs of course!).
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SKaVeN

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Posts: 28
Reply with quote  #30 
Thought I'd let you know that I just took out the HDD, and tried plugged it into two different laptops.  They kept beeping to say there was a device connected, and then beeping a few seconds later, saying there wasn't.  Sounds like the HDD wasn't running well enough fr them to establish a proper connection.  Oh, well, I suppose I can still sell it listed as needing a new HDD.  Someone might still be interested.
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