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jetspeed

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Reply with quote  #16 
Thanks for the update regarding your solder reflow attempts. Looks like I won't bother with it and might pursue a new main board route.
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Fred

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Reply with quote  #17 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AQUAR

Also I did not notice a 2460 Main Board on the list provided by fixmydata.
Would not mind knowing the price of one though. 



Send them a PM,the last time i contacted them they were going to put a pricelist on this Forum for both used and new Toppy. parts.Apparently they have a lot to work thru. so may take some time.
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davidmorr

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Reply with quote  #18 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AQUAR
I am surmising that the BGA chip (biggest chip with the heat sink on top!) is where the video signal is being processed.

Poor solder connections under this chip may attenuate or drain the signal for processing, or the chip may not function properly.
Others have tried to reflow the solder connections to this chip in case any have failed, with limited results.

I had a graphics card fail on a iMac a year or so ago. One of the problems that can occur is poor connection on the graphics chip. The solution is to put the card in the oven at a certain temperature for 20 minutes. This melts the solder and lets it reflow, producing an effective fix.

However, this only works reliably for lead-based solder. About 7 years ago, they swapped over to a solder that did not use lead, and this oven method does not work so well. Perhaps the solder on the Toppy board is not lead-based?

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Fred

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Reply with quote  #19 
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidmorr
. Perhaps the solder on the Toppy board is not lead-based?


Its definitely a newer compound compared to the 7000/7100 era MB & PSU.
We tried to replace some caps that were a bit iffy on a 2400 MB and it takes a hell of a lot of heat to melt the solder so 90% sure its one of the newer Eco. solders that are lead free.
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AQUAR

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Reply with quote  #20 

Some of the solder alloys used for wave soldering are Tin/Silver/Copper alloys and need a bit more temperature.
But I suspect the issue is that it needs proper flux to get it to flow freely over the PCB copper tracks (wetting property!).

@ jetspeed

Nothing ventured nothing gained or
Failure is not guaranteed unless you don't try.

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jetspeed

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Reply with quote  #21 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AQUAR

@ jetspeed

Nothing ventured nothing gained or
Failure is not guaranteed unless you don't try.



I don't have the tools anyway and a good enough excuse for getting a shiny new box 😉
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AQUAR

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Reply with quote  #22 
Total cost of tools needed is about $12.00 (gas powered pencil torch and a Philips screwdriver ("2 dollar shop" stuff).
And you get to keep the tools after the exercise.

Shiny new box!  - polish the old one with Mr Sheen.

Seriously - try to restore the Toppy before spending a lot of money on a BW or wasting money on a Humax.
My friend replaced the toppy with a panasonic PVR. He is happy with it but still prefers the refinements of the old toppy.

I'll be wicking some rosin (dissolved in methylated spirits) under this chip and giving the reflow another go.
Who knows - you might be lucky with just heating up the heat sink.   

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AQUAR

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Reply with quote  #23 
Try number 2 and Toppy is working again.

Will report back if it fails again.
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Fangles

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Reply with quote  #24 
Bugger, bum, tit!! My 2460 is doing it more and more now. And on the first, coldest day of the year, all tuners were offline for half an hour, each time I turned the unit on.

Wife not happy.
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AQUAR

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Reply with quote  #25 
Maybe Fangles will give the "heat up the chip with a blow torch" a go!

Result might be, Happy Wife or DIVORCE, - could be a "blank" for Fangles either way!!!

PS:
Use thick aluminium foil (eg from a food tray) to line each fin of the heat sink.
This is to protect the heat sink from melting - the foil will melt first and indicates that you need to move the flame elsewhere.  
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AQUAR

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Reply with quote  #26 
Just to update - 6 weeks on from "blowtorching" and the Toppy is still working fine with no sign of "scrambled services".
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smashtoppy

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Reply with quote  #27 
I am having the same issue of "Service is not running or scrambled" issue. this is going by my memory but problem arose some time ago but if Topfield 2400 left on for a few minutes the channels would come back. Now that appears to not be the case unless left on for a significant amount of time (hour and half ??). I am currently testing this to see if still the case

I had forgotten about the above, so decided to see if I could find a solution because could not update the FTA program guide for following weeks recordings (done once a week by switching on each channel). Came across the updating firmware (TRF-2400_32020_v2.16.00_29Jan2016.tfd - had never previously done any firmware updates as toppy never needed them) & applied this without doing the " abundant cautionfirmware update" as this was not mentioned at the source for this (icetv website). In any case it appeared to have worked, I had my channels back so reset the recording parameters & also the time which is always out (Manual setting). Managed to correctly record a programme that day. Unfortunately the next day when I switched on the Toppy, same issue of scrambled channels msg from cold start. Sh**, no doub't will have same issue now with next weeks recording of not being able to update. Came across the "abundant cautionfirmware update process" info after more searching & applied that to no avail as when trying to search for the stations once installed it never was able to, this after doing it at least twice (msg came up "0" TV & "0" Radio stations), but the previous TV stations remained as configured (time had to be adjusted again to local again I think). At this point (well actually sooner) my user name gives some indication of the frustration being experienced. I managed to get the search going correctly by applying the "Antenna Supply 5V" in the "Searching" area (also had "Reset Service List"), which I do not recall doing when I first installed the Firmware (may be wrong here). Programmes populated and all seemed well but when I switched on the Toppy today same scrambled channel msg plus the FTA is doing the following - FTA guide was showing yesterdays date (time??) (Manual adjust required again) but after I tried all sorts of timing adjustments & switching off (otherwise continued to show yesterdays programme date [& programmes ???]) is now showing programmes 8 hours ahead of current correct time, so utterly useless because assuming when they record the time will be incorrect. Definitely feeling the username sentiment at this point.

Will update whether leaving on restores FTA to where it should be.
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AQUAR

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Reply with quote  #28 
If it behaves after some time with the unit left in a booted up state, then its quite possible that the solder joints under the processing/decoder chip have let loose (A Ball Gate Array chip type, "BGA" for short). You can't fix it yourself except for trying the reflow trick mentioned above and accept that this may finally and fully kill the unit. 

You may also be able to buy a replacement board (try forum member fixmydata). 
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Fred

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Reply with quote  #29 
The Tuners dropping out for various reasons is a known bug but i remind people as much as i can,always check/replace the battery in the 2400 series before going beserk with the internals,once the voltage starts dropping it causes all sorts of maladies and wierd behaviour.
The longest i've had a battery last in the 7000/7100 and the 2400 series is about 5 years before voltage starts declining so many units would be approaching that time.
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AQUAR

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Reply with quote  #30 
Couldn't agree more with checking battery voltage and power supply voltages.
Whilst the cover is off also look for swollen power supply electrolytic filter capacitors and burns on the HDD connectors.

Also look at the FTA signal strength, too weak or to strong may also lead to the scrambled service message.

If all else checks out, then cold = scrambled and warm = it works, most probably means bad BGA chip solder joints.  
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